Preterism Debunked
The occasion of Paul’s writing to the Thessalonians was to correct some of the errors concerning the end times that the believers had heard from false teachers. Among the falsehoods was that “the day of the Lord has already come”
~2 Thessalonians 2:2
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
~2 Timothy 2:18
I have seen and read the scriptures that Dustin has provided. Everything he says comes from a logical and literal understanding of the Bible. I have not seen a single quotation of scripture in any of your arguments that have not been contorted like a performer from Cirque du Soleil.
I’m not trying to be disparaging but I don’t think I could ever get behind a belief like yours. Respectfully I hope you loose this false sense of security you have and instead find security in the active promises of our Savior.
~Commenters in Chat Responding to an Itchy Eared Preterist.
The Tribulation events in the Book of Revelation are too global and cataclysmic to be attributed to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.
The Book of Revelation tells us that in the coming Tribulation, when God’s wrath is poured out upon a God-rejecting world, the Earth will experience three waves of judgment, with each wave containing seven judgments.
The Book of Revelation tells us of:
• 7 Seal judgments
• 7 Trumpet judgments
• 7 Bowl judgments
…judgments that will devastate the Earth.
Jesus said in Matthew 24:21 that it will be a time of…
Matthew 24:21
“…great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
Listen to some of these judgments described in the Book of Revelation…
Revelation 8:8-9
8 “Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. 9 And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.”
When did that ever happen in the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem? Nothing like that has ever happened in recorded history.
Revelation 16:18-19
18 “…there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the Earth. 19 Now the great city [a reference to Jerusalem, see Rev. 11:8] was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations [plural] fell.”
When in the first century (or any other time for that matter) was there an earthquake that not only split Jerusalem into three parts but caused “the cities of the nations” (Rev. 16:19) to fall?
Well of course, that never happened. That earthquake is still to come.
The Book of Revelation also prophesies about an event that will wipe out 25% of the Earth’s population. Notice…
Revelation 6:8
“And power was given to them over a fourth of the Earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the Earth.”
When was “a fourth of the Earth” (Rev. 6:8) killed? Not in the first century.
In another prophecy (Rev. 9:18), John sees into the future and describes three plagues that will wipe out one third of the remaining population. Notice…
Revelation 9:18
“By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed.”
Was “a third of mankind” (9:18) killed by three plagues in the first century? No.
Revelation 11:5-6 prophesies of “two witnesses…[who] will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth” in Jerusalem, who will be able to destroy their enemies with fire (11:5) and who will be able “to smite the Earth with every plague, as often as they desire.” (11:6)
John goes on to say that these two witnesses will be killed, only to be resurrected and carried up to Heaven in the sight of their enemies (Revelation 11:12).
There is no record that anything like that happened in the first century. Where is there mention of any of these things being literally fulfilled in the annals of history, secular or Christian? There isn’t. And for good reason: none of the events mentioned in Revelation 6-22, have happened. It is only by abandoning the plain literal meaning of the words used in Scripture and spiritualizing or allegorizing the Scriptures that preterists can make these prophecies fit into a pre-A.D. 70 scenario.
We reject that method of Bible interpretation. When these prophecies are fulfilled, they are going to be fulfilled literally, just like the prophecies surrounding God’s past judgments were fulfilled in:
• The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah
• The judgments against Pharaoh and Egypt shortly before the Exodus
• The destruction of the world in the Genesis flood
SIX REASONS TO REJECT PRETERISM
…six reasons you can be confident that preterism is an incorrect view of Bible prophecy. And rather than focus on the problems with full preterism, I want to show you six reasons partial preterism can be rejected. Because if I can show you that partial preterism is unbiblical, then full preterism can be set aside as even more unbiblical.
1. Preterists’ proof texts fail to support their own view.
Turn with me to Matthew 24. The verse we will be looking at here in Matthew 24 is the chief cornerstone in the preterists’ defense of their view. Here in this chapter, Jesus talks about the signs that will take place in the days leading up to His Second Coming to the Earth. He mentions, if you’ll notice…
…in v. 15, the “Abomination of Desolation” (that time when the Antichrist will set himself up in the temple of God and declare himself to be God, 2 Thess. 2)
…in v. 21, He mentions the time of the “great tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.”
…in v. 29, He mentions the sun and moon being darkened and that “the stars will fall from the sky.”
…and then in v. 30, He mentions “the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky.”
MATTHEW 24:34
And then notice v. 34. This is the most popular proof text preterists point to. Notice what Jesus says…
Matthew 24:34
“Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.”
And so our preterist friend says…
PRETERIST: “Ahh, you see! Jesus promised that “this generation” (v. 34)—the generation that was alive at His time—would by no means pass away until all of these things took place (the Abomination of Desolation, the great tribulation, the coming of the Son of Man). Therefore, these things must have taken place. Jesus must have come back or He would be a false prophet!”
Because of this verse (Matt. 24:34) and a couple of others that we’ll look at, preterists insist that all of the things spoken about in this chapter, including…
• the Tribulation events (spoken of in Revelation)
• and the coming of Christ
…had to have occurred before the generation of people living at the time of Jesus, died off.
Well, I disagree that this is what Jesus meant. “Then, what ‘generation’ was Jesus talking about in Matthew 24:34?” He was talking about the generation that would see “all” (v. 34) the things He just mentioned.
The key to understanding this verse (Matthew 24:34) is found by backing up a verse. Notice verse 33. Jesus said…
Matthew 24:33-34
33 “Even so you too, when you see these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation [What generation? the generation who, in v. 33, sees “all” those things] will not pass away until all these things take place.”
So, Jesus says “when you see all these things” (v. 33).
What things?
• The “Abomination of Desolation” (v.15)
• The time of “great tribulation” (v. 21) “such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now nor ever shall.”
• The stars falling from the skies (v. 29)
That generation (the Tribulation generation) will not pass away without also seeing the coming of the Son of Man to the Earth (mentioned in v. 30).
Jesus was talking about the generation of people who would be alive during the events leading up to His Second Coming, that is, during the time of tribulation.
PRETERIST: “Well Charlie, I hear what you’re saying, but it just seems odd to me that Jesus would talk about events that were so far off. Why would Jesus speak to His disciples about events that He knew weren’t going to happen for at least two thousand years?”
Actually, Jesus told His disciples that He didn’t know the day or the hour these events would take place in Matthew 24:36.
Why would Jesus speak of events that were so far off? Because He was answering the question His disciples asked Him a few minutes earlier about the “end of the age” (v. 3).
Notice what they asked Him in Matthew 24:3…
Matthew 24:3
“What will be the sign of Your coming and the end of the age?”
That’s why Jesus spoke to them about events so far off. They asked! If what Jesus said in Matthew 24 was about events that would transpire in A.D. 70 (as preterists believe), then Jesus failed to answer their question. They asked about events regarding the “end of the age” (v. 3) and that’s what Jesus told them about—events that are still in the future. So, Matthew 24:34 fails to support the preterists’ view.
Another popular proof text for the preterist position is found in Matthew 10:23.
MATTHEW 10:23
Jesus said to His disciples…
Matthew 10:23
“When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”
PRETERIST: “Ahhh, you see! Jesus promised that He would come again before His disciples would finish evangelizing the cities of Israel. So He must have come in the first century.”
Is that what Jesus meant there? I don’t think so. Let’s carefully reread the second half of the verse. Jesus said…
Matthew 10:23
“When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”
Now, there are a few different views regarding what Jesus may have meant here, so I don’t want to be dogmatic here with an interpretation. But I believe, along with a good number of Bible commentators, that Jesus was simply telling His disciples that there was so much work to be done (so many cities to reach with the gospel) that they would not finish taking the gospel to their own country before His Second Coming.
And if we’re right—that this is what Jesus meant—Jesus’ prediction certainly came to pass. The disciples never did complete taking the gospel to all of the cities of Israel. Why?
Because Israel, to a large degree, would not receive their message. Jesus, even alludes to the coming Jewish unreceptivity to the gospel in the first part of the verse. Notice again there, v. 23.
Matthew 10:23
“When [not if] they persecute you in this city, flee to another. [That was going to be a common response. Then Jesus says…] For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel [that is, you will not finish the task of taking the gospel to the Jewish people] before the Son of Man comes.”
Persecution (e.g., Acts 8:1) and a prevailing Jewish unreceptivity to the gospel prevented the disciples from going through all the cities of Israel. And to this day the job of taking the gospel to all the Jews has not been completed.
Another possible interpretation, one that Dr. Norman Geisler mentions in his Systematic Theology (Vol. 4, p. 637), is that Jesus may not have even been talking about his Second Coming at the end of the age, but just coming to them again, as in days or weeks later, perhaps reuniting with them near the end of their outreach efforts.
For preterists to insist that Matthew 10:23 requires a first century return of Jesus, fails to keep in mind that there are other possible, and I believe more plausible, interpretations of this passage.
Other Scriptures that preterists appeal to in support of their position are found in…
The Book of Revelation
There are four verses in particular.
Revelation 1:1
“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place.”
Revelation 2:16
“…I am coming to you quickly.”
Revelation 11:14
“The third woe is coming quickly.”
Revelation 22:12
“Behold, I am coming quickly.”
PRETERIST: “See! Jesus said, ‘I am coming to you quickly.’ Surely, He could not have had in mind events that were two thousand years later. The events spoken about here in the Book of Revelation had to have been fulfilled quickly—shortly after He lived.”
Well, I disagree.
The Greek word translated “shortly,” or “quickly,” here in these passages in the Book of Revelation (Revelation 1:1, etc.) is the Greek word “tachús.”
This word does not refer to a soon event but a swift event.
• The Arndt and Gingrich Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (p. 814) says this word means: “quick, swift,” or “speedy.”
• Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (p. 616) agrees, saying that the word tachu means: “quickly, speedily.”
• Vine’s Expository Dictionary of the New Testament Words (p. 913) also agrees, saying this word means: “swift, quick…quickly.”
Jesus was not describing when the events will occur, but rather the manner in which they will take place when they do occur. He was saying that when these events take place, they are going to unfold suddenly, quickly, with great swiftness.
So, these verses in the Book of Revelation do not support the preterist position. And that is the first reason to reject preterism…
1. Preterists’ proof texts fail to support their own view.
A second reason to reject preterism is…
10) The strongest argument for a yet still future time period is the description that follows Matthew 24:15 in Matthew 24:16-31. The abomination of desolation marks the beginning of a period not the end of it. The temple is destroyed at the end of the siege of Jerusalem and therefore it would have made no sense for Jesus to tell people to flee once they saw the abomination. In 70 AD it would have been too late, the Romans had by then already surrounded and destroyed the city. Jesus (Matt. 24:21) also calls this a period of unequal ferocity with the added phrase that it will occur once — οὐδʼ οὐ μὴ γένηται (and never will be). While the events of 70 AD were terrible in their ferocity and suffering we have seen numerous times where the suffering has far exceeded the events of 70 AD. Once again, to make Dan. 12:11 as having taken place in 70 AD requires the idea that Jesus was wrong when he said there would never again be a time period as horrific as the “Great Tribulation.”
~Excerpt from Daniel 10, 11, & 12 – Wars of End Times
2. None of the church fathers mentioned Christ’s Second Coming as having already occurred.
By “church fathers” I am referring to those leaders in the church of the first three centuries A.D. following the original disciples (e.g., Justin Martyr, Eusebius, Tertullian, Polycarp).
Many people don’t realize this, but many of their writings survive to this day. You can go to Amazon.com and buy an encyclopedic size set of the writings of the church fathers (38 volumes) and see with your own eyes what they had to say on a wealth of theological issues.
And as far as the church fathers and preterism are concerned, there is zero indication from known writings of the church fathers that anyone understood the New Testament prophecies from a preterist perspective.
There are no early church writings that teach that Jesus returned (physically or spiritually) in the first century.
None!
If we, as God’s people, are supposed to understand the prophecies of the New Testament according to the preteristic view, you would think God would have left at least one written record of this.
The idea that Jesus came back in A.D. 70 was a foreign idea during the first 5 centuries of the church and then only mentioned sporadically after that until about 400 years ago.
Norman Geisler points out that it wasn’t until the early 17th century–when preterist thinking was applied by the Jesuit Catholic scholar Luiz de Alcazar (1554-1613) to the Book of Revelation–that it was given very serious consideration.
So, that’s a second reason to reject preterism: None of the church fathers mentioned Christ’s Second Coming as having already occurred.
3. The Christians alive during A.D. 70, as well as the church fathers, believed the Second Coming was a future event.
In other words, not only did the early church not refer to the Second Coming as a past event, over and over they refer to it as a future event.
The oldest extra-Biblical Christian document known to exist is a document called The Didache. It is a simple collection of early church doctrine. Most scholars believe it was written near the close of the first century, most likely around A.D. 80. It was used and cited by many of the church fathers, as well as by the Christian historian Eusebius (see his Ecclesiastical Church History 3:25). So its early existence is well documented.
The full text of The Didache had been lost for centuries. Amazingly, it was rediscovered in Constantinople in 1873. The interesting thing that this document proves is that those who lived through the events of A.D. 70 regarded the events spoken of in Matthew 24-25 as yet to be fulfilled prophecy.
This early church document mentions the Antichrist, the great tribulation and the Second Coming of Christ as events that were yet to come. So the Didache is a good piece of evidence from the very believers who lived through the events surrounding A.D. 70 that the preterist view is incorrect.
In addition to the Didache, early church fathers like…
• Papias
• Clement of Rome
• Ignatius
• Polycarp
• Justin Martyr
…wrote of a future Second Coming.
Well, this raises a question. Who would know better as to whether Jesus came back in A.D. 70? Those who were alive in A.D. 70 and the years immediately following? Or modern day preterists writing 2,000 years later? I’ll side with those who lived closer to the events.
So, that is a third reason to reject preterism: The Christians alive during A.D. 70, as well as the church fathers, believed the Second Coming was a future event.
4. A strong case can be made that the Book of Revelation was written in approximately A.D. 95, long after the events of A.D. 70.
This poses a big problem for the preteristic view. Preterists believe the Book of Revelation was a prophecy written by the apostle John describing events that would shortly come upon Jerusalem and the Jewish people as their city would be destroyed by the Romans.
For the preterist view to work, the Book of Revelation has to have been written sometime prior to A.D. 70.
But there is compelling evidence in the writings of the church fathers that the Book of Revelation was written approximately 25 years after the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.
For example, consider Irenaeus. He lived from A.D. 120–202. He was the bishop in the city of Lyons in modern day France. He grew up in Smyrna, one of the cities where the Book of Revelation was first circulated (Rev. 2:8). He was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John (the author of Revelation).
So get this in your mind…Polycarp was a disciple of the apostle John (the author of the Book of Revelation) and Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp. If anyone knew when the Book of Revelation was penned, it would have been Polycarp or Irenaeus!
Well! In Irenaeus’s work titled, Against Heresies (13:18), he tells us when John had his apocalyptic vision. He says…
We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him [the apostle John] who beheld the apocalyptic vision.
[Hold on. Stop there for a second. That’s interesting!]
Note that Irenaeus (AD 120-202) believed that the “Antichrist” had still not been revealed. Well, that throws a wrench in the preteristic viewpoint. Why? Preterists, including Hank Hanegraaff, believe that the first century Caesar, Nero, was the Antichrist.
That’s not what Irenaeus thought. We’ll talk more about why Nero can’t be the Antichrist shortly. But let’s continue with Irenaeus’s quote. I want you to notice when he says John the apostle had his apocalyptic vision…
“…For that was seen not very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.”
Irenaeus says John had his “apocalyptic vision (the things he writes about in the Book of Revelation) towards the end of Domitian’s reign.”
Who was Domitian? Domitian was a Roman Emperor near the end of the first century.
Here’s what is so fascinating about Irenaeus’s statement. Domitian’s reign did not even begin until A.D. 81. His reign ended with his assassination on September 18th, A.D. 96.
Irenaeus places the date of the authorship of the Book of Revelation sometime around A.D. 95 (“towards the END of Domitian’s reign”), long after the events of A.D. 70 and the destruction of Jerusalem. This statement by Irenaeus is devastating to the preterist position.
But, let’s suppose for preterists’ sake that Irenaeus was a sloppy historian and that the Book of Revelation was written near the beginning of Domitian’s reign (A.D. 81). That would still place its writing after the destruction of Jerusalem.
And if the Book of Revelation was written anytime after the destruction of Jerusalem, it can not be a collection of prophecies about events that found their fulfillment before and in A.D. 70 as preterists claim.
PRETERIST: “Hold on here a second Charlie. You shouldn’t base the date of the authorship of the Book of Revelation on the writings of one person.”
Okay. Here are some others who affirmed the very same thing…
Clement of Alexandria, (who lived from about A.D. 150 to 215) also testified to a post A.D. 70 date for the writing of the Book of Revelation. He mentions that John was exiled to the isle of Patmos until “after the death of the tyrant” (another reference to Domitian who died in A.D. 96).
Another source for a post A.D. 70 completion date for the Book of Revelation is Victorinus.
Victorinus was an early church bishop who suffered martyrdom around A.D. 304. He said in his commentary on the Book of Revelation, that John had his vision of the apocalypse while “he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the mines by Caesar Domitian.”
Another early church source is Eusebius…
Eusebius lived from A.D. 260 – 340. He is known as “the father of church history,” due to his classic work Ecclesiastical History. Several times in his writings he also dates the Book of Revelation to the reign of Domitian.
In addition to these men, there was Jerome.
Jerome, the one who translated the Scriptures into Latin (The Vulgate), lived from 340 to 419. He states clearly in two places that John was banished under Domitian and that is when he wrote the Book of Revelation.
These statements from some of the greatest, most reliable names in early church history, build a compelling case that the Book of Revelation was written many years after A.D. 70 and the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem.
And if these men were telling us the truth about this matter, the whole preteristic view goes up in smoke.
5. The Roman emperor Nero could not possibly have been the Antichrist or “the Beast” as preterists suggest.
Emperor Nero can’t be the Antichrist because Nero died by suicide in 68 AD, 2 years before AD 70. He was also not, as per 2 Thes 2:8, consumed by the breath of the Lord’s month nor consumed by the brightness of Jesus’ coming. Nero also never set foot in Jerusalem & Nero never made a 7 year covenant about Israel as per Dan 9:27.
As I have said, preterists believe the Book of Revelation is now an account about things that have already been fulfilled.
In an attempt to justify their position preterists have searched high and low through historical records of the first century (primarily Josephus’s writings) in an attempt to find historical details that could possibly discuss the fulfillment of the prophecies contained in the Book of Revelation.
One of their widely held beliefs is that the Antichrist, or “the beast” as he’s called in the Book of Revelation, was actually the cruel Roman Emperor Nero.
Could this be? Could those passages about the Antichrist, the beast, the lawless one (2 Thess. 2:9), be references, not to a coming world ruler but references to the now dead Roman Emperor Nero?
Preterists think so. How do they arrive at this conclusion?
Preterists like to point out that when you apply gematria (pronounced: Juh May Tree uh)—a Jewish way of assigning numerical value to letters—to Nero’s name, you actually end up with the number 666 (Rev. 13:18).
And that can sound pretty compelling to people who don’t bother to do any research on the issue. Well, there are numerous problems with this conclusion but I’ll briefly just point out that…
Number crunching Nero’s name doesn’t work in Greek, the language John wrote the Book of Revelation in and the language his initial audience in Asia Minor spoke. So preterists take Nero’s name and convert it to Hebrew. But it still doesn’t add up to 666! So, preterists add one of Nero’s titles (Caesar) to his name. But it still doesn’t quite add up, so they rely on an abnormal spelling of the word Caesar that drops a Hebrew letter from the normal spelling. And then, what do you know! The letters add up to 666!
Well, you can get just about any name to equal 666 if you tinker with it like that (changing the language, adding titles, misspelling words).
But even if Nero’s name did add up to 666, no one in the early church seemed to be able to figure this out. None of the church fathers or early commentators identify Nero as the antichrist or associate him with the number 666. None! In fact the earliest mention of Nero being the antichrist doesn’t appear to have occurred until about 1831.
And there’s plenty of reasons why the early church didn’t think Nero was the antichrist. The facts surrounding his life don’t comport with the Bible.
Turn with me to 2 Thessalonians 2.
2 Thessalonians 2:8
“And then the lawless one [that is one of the titles given to the coming world leader] will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.”
How does the Bible say this “lawless one,” the Antichrist, will be brought to an end? By “the Lord.” When will that happen? Notice the verse again. At “His coming.”
The Bible teaches that this “lawless one,” the Antichrist, will be brought to an end by “the Lord” Himself at “His coming” (2 Thess. 2:8, Rev. 19:19-20). Well, this verse is problematic for the preterist viewpoint. How so?
A. This was not how Nero died. Suetonius (a first century Roman historian) tells us that Nero committed suicide at the age of 31, when “he drove a dagger into his throat.” [Source: Suetonius (c.69 – c.140) The Lives of the Twelve Caesars, “he drove a dagger into his throat”]. Far from being consumed by the breath of Christ at His coming, Nero actually took his own life.
B. Nero committed suicide two years before preterists say Jesus came back. Preterists believe Jesus’ prophecy about coming back in Matthew 24 was fulfilled in A.D. 70. But Nero committed suicide in June of 68, two years before A.D. 70! Obviously this could not have been a fulfillment of what 2 Thessalonians 2:8 says will happen to the Antichrist.
C. Daniel 9:27 says that this coming world leader will make a seven year covenant relating to Israel. Nero never made any such covenant.
D. The Bible says this coming world leader will take “his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God” (2 Thess. 2:4). That never happened. Nero never stepped foot in the temple in Jerusalem. In fact, Nero never stepped foot in the city of Jerusalem.
E. Revelation 13:16-17 says that under the Antichrist’s coming government, people will be given a mark on their hand or forehead that will permit them to buy and sell. Nothing of the sort ever occurred under Nero, nor ever has to this date. These facts of history, relating to Nero, are another blow to the preterist position. None of these things ever happened.
So, that is the fifth reason to reject preterism: The Roman emperor Nero could not possibly have been the Antichrist or “the Beast” as preterists suggest.
6. The Tribulation events in the Book of Revelation are too global and cataclysmic to be attributed to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.
The Book of Revelation tells us that in the coming Tribulation, when God’s wrath is poured out upon a God-rejecting world, the Earth will experience three waves of judgment, with each wave containing seven judgments.
The Book of Revelation tells us of:
• 7 Seal judgments
• 7 Trumpet judgments
• 7 Bowl judgments
…judgments that will devastate the Earth.
Jesus said in Matthew 24:21 that it will be a time of…
Matthew 24:21
“…great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
Listen to some of these judgments described in the Book of Revelation…
Revelation 8:8-9
8 “Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. 9 And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.”
When did that ever happen in the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem? Nothing like that has ever happened in recorded history.
Revelation 16:18-19
18 “…there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the Earth. 19 Now the great city [a reference to Jerusalem, see Rev. 11:8] was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations [plural] fell.”
When in the first century (or any other time for that matter) was there an earthquake that not only split Jerusalem into three parts but caused “the cities of the nations” (Rev. 16:19) to fall?
Well of course, that never happened. That earthquake is still to come.
The Book of Revelation also prophesies about an event that will wipe out 25% of the Earth’s population. Notice…
Revelation 6:8
“And power was given to them over a fourth of the Earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the Earth.”
When was “a fourth of the Earth” (Rev. 6:8) killed? Not in the first century.
In another prophecy (Rev. 9:18), John sees into the future and describes three plagues that will wipe out one third of the remaining population. Notice…
Revelation 9:18
“By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed.”
Was “a third of mankind” (9:18) killed by three plagues in the first century? No.
Revelation 11:5-6 prophesies of “two witnesses…[who] will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth” in Jerusalem, who will be able to destroy their enemies with fire (11:5) and who will be able “to smite the Earth with every plague, as often as they desire.” (11:6)
John goes on to say that these two witnesses will be killed, only to be resurrected and carried up to Heaven in the sight of their enemies (Revelation 11:12).
There is no record that anything like that happened in the first century. Where is there mention of any of these things being literally fulfilled in the annals of history, secular or Christian? There isn’t. And for good reason: none of the events mentioned in Revelation 6-22, have happened. It is only by abandoning the plain literal meaning of the words used in Scripture and spiritualizing or allegorizing the Scriptures that preterists can make these prophecies fit into a pre-A.D. 70 scenario.
We reject that method of Bible interpretation. When these prophecies are fulfilled, they are going to be fulfilled literally, just like the prophecies surrounding God’s past judgments were fulfilled in:
• The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah
• The judgments against Pharaoh and Egypt shortly before the Exodus
• The destruction of the world in the Genesis flood
CONCLUSION
So, as we have seen this brief article, there are very good reasons why the preteristic view of Bible prophecy should be rejected.
1. Preterists’ proof texts fail to support their own view.
2. None of the church fathers mentioned Christ’s Second Coming as having already occurred.
3. The Christians alive during A.D. 70, as well as the church fathers, believed the Second Coming was a future event.
4. A strong case can be made that the Book of Revelation was written in approximately A.D. 95, long after the events of A.D. 70.
5. The Roman emperor Nero could not possibly have been the Antichrist or “the Beast” as preterists suggest.
6. The Tribulation events in the Book of Revelation are too global and cataclysmic to be attributed to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.
Any one of these reasons alone is great reason to doubt the preterist position. All six of these reasons taken together are reason to reject this view of Bible prophecy outright.
Brothers and sisters, I exhort you to be a Berean (Acts 17:11)! Examine the Scriptures daily and test everything you hear by the Word of God (Isaiah 8:20; 1 Thess. 5:21). There are a lot of strange teachings out there on Christian radio stations, Christian cable channels, and in Christian bookstores. It’s important that you know the Bible. So, be a student of the Scriptures. Read the Bible daily—and not just so you can avoid false doctrine, but so that you can really get to know your Creator. He is so worth knowing!
Do you know Him? You can. Jesus, God in the flesh, died on that cruel wooden cross in your place, to pay the penalty for your sins, so that you could be forgiven, rescued from spending eternity in Hell, and be brought back into a relationship with Him. He rose from the grave three days later and today He is offering mankind (you!) the free gift of salvation and everlasting life to all those who will place their faith in Him.
Original Here
“Key Passages
The Bible verse preterists use most widely in their attempts to establish their thesis concerning Bible prophecy is Matthew 24:34: “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.” (See also Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32.)
Kenneth Gentry said of this much-debated passage, “This statement of Christ is indisputably clear—and absolutely demanding of a first-century fulfillment of the events in the preceding verses, including the Great Tribulation.”2
However, I believe the timing of “this generation” in Matthew 24:34 is governed by the related phrase all these things, which refers to events Christ described in verses 4–31, which are the events of the Tribulation. Consequently, Christ was saying that the generation that sees “all these things” will exist until all the events of the future Tribulation are fulfilled literally.
Preterists ignore the fact in Matthew 24 that it is Israel whom the Lord is rescuing. Matthew 22—23 speaks of Israel’s judgment, which did come in A.D. 70, but one should not ignore the identity of the nation rescued in 24:27–31. It is saved Israel, so this is clearly a future event. This is a literal interpretation and one that was not fulfilled in the first century.
Preterists believe they are driven to an A.D. 70 fulfillment of Revelation because, like the Olivet Discourse, they believe it says it was to be fulfilled “soon.” Thus they say terms like quickly and at hand teach that Revelation had to be fulfilled within a few years of its writing. Even though virtually everyone down through church history has held to an A.D. 95 date for the writing of Revelation,3 preterists say the book was written in A.D. 65. The A.D. 95 date renders the preterist view impossible and fortifies the argument that the terms quickly and at hand teach imminence—that Christ can return at any moment—not that He will return soon.
Problems
Placing most prophecy in the past greatly changes one’s overall view of God’s plan for history. Many preterists believe we are beyond the Millennium and currently reside in the new heavens and new earth. Traditionalists, on the other hand, believe the new heavens and new earth refer to the eternal state.
If we were in the new heavens and new earth, then the New Testament epistles would not directly apply to believers today because they were written to instruct Christians how to live between the two comings of Christ. Since preterists often employ an allegorical rather than a literal hermeneutic, some do not believe in a literal interpretation of the book of Genesis or in young Earth creationism and a global flood.
Further, some no longer hold to a personal Devil or angels, whether elect or evil, or a literal hell. Some within the emerging church, like Brian McLaren, are attracted to Preterism. More within that movement, however, tend to idealism;4 but none support a literal interpretation of the Bible.
Preterism produces one of the more extreme forms of Replacement Theology because it widely teaches that the theme of Revelation is about God’s divorce of Israel, which is replaced by the bride of Christ, meaning the church. In fact, Kenneth Gentry teaches that the scroll in Revelation 5 “would be a bill of divorcement”5 against Israel.
This position radically opposes that of Renald Showers and The Friends of Israel. Wrote Showers in his book Maranatha Our Lord, Come!
The sealed scroll Christ took from the right hand of God in heaven (Rev. 5) is the deed of purchase for mankind’s tenant possession or administration of the earth….The seven seals on Christ’s scroll make it totally secure from tampering or change. Thus, they are the guarantee that Christ’s scroll deed is absolutely irrefutable evidence that He is the Kinsman-Redeemer who has the right to take tenant possession of the earth.6
“As the Kinsman-Redeemer,” wrote Showers, “Christ will keep the earth to administer it for God’s purposes (Rev. 11:15). Christ ‘shall be king over all the earth; in that day shall there be one Lᴏʀᴅ, and his name one’ (Zech. 14:9).”7
Christ will take possession and rule Earth for a literal 1,000 years from amid a restored nation of Israel. At the conclusion of that Millennium, eternity will begin.
According to the preterist view, however, Rome’s destruction of Israel in A.D. 70 annihilated Israel’s future. Israel has no national future whatsoever. It is not surprising that most preterists do not support the modern State of Israel and tend to be sympathetic to Palestinian propaganda.
Prognosis
For the last 150 years, the Bible-study movement in America has taught that Scripture reveals a future for national Israel. It has taught Premillennialism (that Christ will return before His literal, 1,000-year reign on Earth begins) and a pretribulational Rapture (Christians will be removed from Earth before the Great Tribulation) (This is debunked by merely reading scripture). During the last 25 years, however, there has been a steady decline of systematic Bible study and teaching within evangelicalism. Today evangelicalism has moved away from the belief that we can understand what the Bible says if we interpret it literally. Instead, it emphasizes what interpreters believe about the Bible. The postmodern mindset that has descended on too many American evangelicals predisposes them toward a less-literal, subjective hermeneutic where readers make the Bible relevant to themselves and their culture, rather than desiring to understand what God intended so that they may change their personal lives and cultures to correspond with timeless biblical standards.
Although many still believe the Bible plainly says what it means and means what it says, our numbers appear to be on the decline, especially in the academic world. Unless the general direction of things changes, we are headed backward to a new theological dark age when allegorical interpretation ruled the church and produced many false teachings and practices. This is why Christian leaders must become informed about the hermeneutical shift that has taken place within evangelicalism so that they will not be misled. Laymen need to seek out those ministries and churches that teach the Bible literally and support them in every way possible. Maranatha!”
Original Here
Dear Preterists – What say you?
Preterism seems to be on the rise these days. A number of friends of mine and people on Facebook seem to be either fully in this camp now or “exploring” it to the point where they are at least leaning heavily in that direction.
In response to this, recently, I’ve been looking into the writings of the so-called “Early Church Fathers” and going as far back as to The Didache, I am not seeing any evidence that they subscribed to the ideas presented by Preterists (partial or otherwise), which would have us believe the book of Revelation was fulfilled by the events of 70 AD.
Keep in mind The Didache (aka “The Lord’s Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations”) was written in the late first or early second century. This places it VERY close to the writings of the New Testament, and especially the book of Revelation. All the more so, if you accept the 90 AD authorship date – but even if you accept the 65 AD date for Revelation, this is still not too long thereafter. The Didache was used as a source to provide instruction for early Christian communities. Some of the later “Church Fathers” even thought it should considered part of Scripture. Regardless, it was clearly widely distributed and highly esteemed among early Christians.
The last chapter of The Didache addresses the subject of Christ’s return and warns Christians about the persecution and deception of the Antichrist that will precede it – encouraging them to “endure in their faith” until the end:
Chapter 16 – Watchfulness; the Coming of the Lord.
Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord will come. But come together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you are not made perfect in the last time. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; for when lawlessness increases, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, and then shall appear the world-deceiver as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but those who endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth: first, the sign of an outspreading in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet. And third, the resurrection of the dead — yet not of all, but as it is said: “The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him.” Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.
[ SOURCE: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html ]
Why would this need to be said if they believed prophecy had already been fulfilled in 70 AD?? Indeed, the more I looked into the Early Church Fathers, the more I saw evidence that they believed they were either in the “Last Days” or that it was coming soon – Antichrist and all. Justin Martyr (100 – 165 AD), Iranaeus (130 – 202 AD), Clement of Alexandria (150 – 220 AD), Hippolytus (170- 235 AD), Cyprian (200 – 258 AD), Victorinus of Pettau (2?? – 304 AD) and many others who wrote in the first few hundred years following the time of the New Testament writers obviously shared a Premillennial view of End Times, showing no indication that they believed Revelation was fulfilled by the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple just a few decades to a century or so prior.
Justin Martyr in his work, Dialogue With Trypho – Chapter 60 wrote:
He [Christ] shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy [Antichrist], who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians, who, having learned the true worship of God from the law, and the word which went forth from Jerusalem by means of the apostles of Jesus, have fled for safety to the God of Jacob and God of Israel; and we who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons,—our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage,—and we cultivate piety, righteousness, philanthropy, faith, and hope, which we have from the Father Himself through Him who was crucified; and sitting each under his vine, i.e., each man possessing his own married wife. For you are aware that the prophetic word says, ‘And his wife shall be like a fruitful vine.’ Now it is evident that no one can terrify or subdue us who have believed in Jesus over all the world. For it is plain that, though beheaded, and crucified, and thrown to wild beasts, and chains, and fire, and all other kinds of torture, we do not give up our confession; but the more such things happen, the more do others and in larger numbers become faithful, and worshippers of God through the name of Jesus.
[ SOURCE: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html ]
Note Justin’s use of the word “shall” indicating not past events, but rather a future in which he says “us the Christians” will have to endure persecution.
Irenaeus shared a similar view. But perhaps of extreme importance, he was a student of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John. So, here we are just 2 generations of students away from the man who wrote the book of Revelation. John discipled Polycarp, who discipled Irenaeus, who wrote in Book 5 of Against Heresies:
Chapter XXVI.-John and Daniel Have Predicted the Dissolution and Desolation of the Roman Empire, Which Shall Precede the End of the World and the Eternal Kingdom of Christ. The Gnostics are Refuted, Those Tools of Satan, Who Invent Another Father Different from the Creator.
1. In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord’s disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise, among whom the empire which now rules [the earth] shall be partitioned. He teaches us what the ten horns shall be which were seen by Daniel, telling us that thus it had been said to him: “And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet, but shall receive power as if kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and give their strength and power to the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because He is the Lord of lords and the King of kings.” It is manifest, therefore, that of these [potentates], he who is to come shall slay three, and subject the remainder to his power, and that he shall be himself the eighth among them. And they shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. After that they shall be destroyed by the coming of our Lord.
[ SOURCE: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html ]
Again, note the repeated use of the word “shall” employed by a disciple of Polycarp, who was discipled by the author of the book of Revelation. This is significant. Frankly, it should be a case closed scenario if you ask me. But wait! There’s more. Much more…
Early in the third century, in a document titled, Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, in sections 60 and 61, Hippolytus wrote:
Now, concerning the tribulation of the persecution which is to fall upon the Church from the adversary, John also speaks thus: “And I saw a great and wondrous sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. And she, being with child, cries, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man-child, who is to rule all the nations: and the child was caught up unto God and to His throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath the place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And then when the dragon saw it, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man-child. And to the woman were given two wings of the great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast (out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast) out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the saints of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus.”
By the woman then clothed with the sun, he meant most manifestly the Church, endued with the Father’s word, whose brightness is above the sun. … “And the dragon,” he says, “saw and persecuted the woman which brought forth the man-child. And to the woman were given two wings of the great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.” That refers to the one thousand two hundred and threescore days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church, which flees from city to city, and seeks conceal-meat in the wilderness among the mountains, possessed of no other defence than the two wings of the great eagle, that is to say, the faith of Jesus Christ, who, in stretching forth His holy hands on the holy tree, unfolded two wings, the right and the left, and called to Him all who believed upon Him, and covered them as a hen her chickens.
[ SOURCE: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/hippolytus-christ.html ]
Cyprian wrote in the Epistles of Cyprian:
“For you ought to know and to believe, and hold it for certain, that the day of affliction has begun to hang over our heads, and the end of the world and the time of Antichrist to draw near, so that we must all stand prepared for the battle … “The time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service…” Nor let any one wonder that we are harassed with increasing afflictions, when the Lord before predicted that these things would happen in the last times,” (Epistles of Cyprian, LV, 1,2)
Nor let any one of you, beloved brethren, be so terrified by the fear of future persecution, or the coming of the threatening Antichrist, as not to be found armed for all things by the evangelical exhortations and precepts, and by the heavenly warnings. Antichrist is coming… but immediately the Lord follows to avenge our sufferings and our wounds. (Epistles of Cyprian, LIII, p.722)
Writing shortly after the Valerian Persecution (circa 260 AD), in his Commentary of the Apocalypse, Victorinus wrote quite an interesting commentary on Chapters 11 – 13, and 17 – all of which is worthy of our attention here:
From the Eleventh Chapter:
1. And there was shown unto me a reed like a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. A reed was shown like to a rod. This itself is the Apocalypse which he subsequently exhibited to the churches; for the Gospel of the complete faith he subsequently wrote for the sake of our salvation. For when Valentinus, and Cerinthus, and Ebion, and others of the school of Satan, were scattered abroad throughout the world, there assembled together to him from the neighbouring provinces all the bishops, and compelled him himself also to draw up his testimony. Moreover, we say that the measure of God’s temple is the command of God to confess the Father Almighty, and that His Son Christ was begotten by the Father before the beginning of the world, and was made man in very soul and flesh, both of them having overcome misery and death; and that, when received with His body into heaven by the Father, He shed forth the Holy Spirit, the gift and pledge of immortality, that He was announced by the prophets, He was described by the law, He was God’s hand, and the Word of the Father from God, Lord over all, and founder of the world: this is the reed and the measure of faith; and no one worships the holy altar save he who confesses this faith.
2. The court which is within the temple leave out. The space which is called the court is the empty altar within the walls: these being such as were not necessary, he commanded to be ejected from the Church.
It is given to be trodden down by the Gentiles. That is, to the men of this world, that it may be trodden under foot by the nations, or with the nations. Then he repeats about the destruction and slaughter of the last time, and says:—
3. They shall tread the holy city down for forty and two months; and I will give to my two witnesses, and they shall predict a thousand two hundred and threescore days clothed in sackcloth. That is, three years and six months: these make forty-two months. Therefore their preaching is three years and six months, and the kingdom of Antichrist as much again.
5. If any man will hurt them, fire proceeds out of their mouth, and devours their enemies. That fire proceeds out of the mouth of those prophets against the adversaries, bespeaks the power of the world. For all afflictions, however many there are, shall be sent by their messengers in their word. Many think that there is Elisha, or Moses, with Elijah; but both of these died; while the death of Elijah is not heard of, with whom all our ancients have believed that it was Jeremiah. For even the very word spoken to him testifies to him, saying, Before I formed you in the belly I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you, and I ordained you a prophet unto the nations. But he was not a prophet unto the nations; and thus the truthful word of God makes it necessary, which it has promised to set forth, that he should be a prophet to the nations.
4. These are the two candlesticks standing before the Lord of the earth. These two candlesticks and two olive trees He has to this end spoken of, and admonished you that if, when you have read of them elsewhere, you have not understood, you may understand here. For in Zechariah, one of the twelve prophets, it is thus written: These are the two olive trees and two candlesticks which stand in the presence of the Lord of the earth; Zechariah 4:14 that is, they are in paradise. Also, in another sense, standing in the presence of the lord of the earth, that is, in the presence of Antichrist. Therefore they must be slain by Antichrist.
7. And the beast which ascends from the abyss. After many plagues completed in the world, in the end he says that a beast ascended from the abyss. But that he shall ascend from the abyss is proved by many testimonies; for he says in the thirty-first chapter of Ezekiel: Behold, Assur was a cypress in Mount Lebanon. Assur, deeply rooted, was a lofty and branching cypress — that is, a numerous people — in Mount Lebanon, in the kingdom of kingdoms, that is, of the Romans. Moreover, that he says he was beautiful in offshoots, he says he was strong in armies. The water, he says, shall nourish him, that is, the many thousands of men which were subjected to him; and the abyss increased him, that is, belched him forth. For even Isaiah speaks almost in the same words; moreover, that he was in the kingdom of the Romans, and that he was among the Cæsars. The Apostle Paul also bears witness, for he says to the Thessalonians: Let him who now restrains restrain, until he be taken out of the way; and then shall appear that Wicked One, even he whose coming is after the working of Satan, with signs and lying wonders. And that they might know that he should come who then was the prince, he added: He already endeavours after the secret of mischief 2 Thessalonians 2:10 — that is, the mischief which he is about to do he strives to do secretly; but he is not raised up by his own power, nor by that of his father, but by command of God, of which thing Paul says in the same passage: For this cause, because they have not received the love of God, He will send upon them a spirit of error, that they all may be persuaded of a lie, who have not been persuaded of the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And Isaiah says: While they waited for the light, darkness arose upon them. Isaiah 59:9 Therefore the Apocalypse sets forth that these prophets are killed by the same, and on the fourth day rise again, that none might be found equal to God.
8. And their dead bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt. But He calls Jerusalem Sodom and Egypt, since it had become the heaping up of the persecuting people. Therefore it behooves us diligently, and with the utmost care, to follow the prophetic announcement, and to understand what the Spirit from the Father both announces and anticipates, and how, when He has gone forward to the last times, He again repeats the former ones. And now, what He will do once for all, He sometimes sets forth as if it were done; and unless you understand this, as sometimes done, and sometimes as about to be done, you will fall into a great confusion. Therefore the interpretation of the following sayings has shown therein, that not the order of the reading, but the order of the discourse, must be understood.
19. And the temple of God was opened which is in heaven. The temple opened is a manifestation of our Lord. For the temple of God is the Son, as He Himself says: Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. And when the Jews said, Forty and six years was this temple in building, the evangelist says, He spoke of the temple of His body.
And there was seen in His temple the ark of the Lord’s testament. The preaching of the Gospel and the forgiveness of sins, and all the gifts whatever that came with Him, he says, appeared therein.
From the Twelfth Chapter:
1. And there was seen a great sign in heaven. A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. And being with child, she cried out travailing, and bearing torments that she might bring forth. The woman clothed with the sun, and having the moon under her feet, and wearing a crown of twelve stars upon her head, and travailing in her pains, is the ancient Church of fathers, and prophets, and saints, and apostles, which had the groans and torments of its longing until it saw that Christ, the fruit of its people according to the flesh long promised to it, had taken flesh out of the selfsame people. Moreover, being clothed with the sun intimates the hope of resurrection and the glory of the promise. And the moon intimates the fall of the bodies of the saints under the obligation of death, which never can fail. For even as life is diminished, so also it is increased. Nor is the hope of those that sleep extinguished absolutely, as some think, but they have in their darkness a light such as the moon. And the crown of twelve stars signifies the choir of fathers, according to the fleshly birth, of whom Christ was to take flesh.
3. And there appeared another sign in heaven; and behold a red dragon, having seven heads. Now, that he says that this dragon was of a red color — that is, of a purple color — the result of his work gave him such a color. For from the beginning (as the Lord says) he was a murderer; and he has oppressed the whole of the human race, not so much by the obligation of death, as, moreover, by the various forms of destruction and fatal mischiefs. His seven heads were the seven kings of the Romans, of whom also is Antichrist, as we have said above.
And ten horns. He says that the ten kings in the latest times are the same as these, as we shall more fully set forth there.
4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them upon the earth. Now, that he says that the dragon’s tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, this may be taken in two ways. For many think that he may be able to seduce the third part of the men who believe. But it should more truly be understood, that of the angels that were subject to him, since he was still a prince when he descended from his estate, he seduced the third part; therefore what we said above, the Apocalypse says.
And the dragon stood before the woman who was beginning to bring forth, that, when she had brought forth, he might devour her child. The red dragon standing and desiring to devour her child when she had brought him forth, is the devil — to wit, the traitor angel, who thought that the perishing of all men would be alike by death; but He, who was not born of seed, owed nothing to death: wherefore he could not devour Him — that is, detain Him in death — for on the third day He rose again. Finally, also, and before He suffered, he approached to tempt Him as man; but when he found that He was not what he thought Him to be, he departed from Him, even till the time. Whence it is here said:—
5. And she brought forth a son, who begins to rule all nations with a rod of iron. The rod of iron is the sword of persecution.
I saw that all men withdrew from his abodes. That is, the good will be removed, flying from persecution.
And her son was caught up to God, and to His throne. We read also in the Acts of the Apostles that He was caught up to God’s throne, just as speaking with the disciples He was caught up to heaven.
6. But the woman fled into the wilderness, and there were given to her two great eagle’s wings. The aid of the great eagle’s wings — to wit, the gift of prophets— was given to that Catholic Church, whence in the last times a hundred and forty-four thousands of men should believe in the preaching of Elias; but, moreover, he here says that the rest of the people should be found alive on the coming of the Lord. And the Lord says in the Gospel: Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; Luke 21:21 that is, as many as should be gathered together in Judea, let them go to that place which they have ready, and let them be supported there for three years and six months from the presence of the devil.
14. Two great wings are the two prophets— Elias, and the prophet who shall be with him.
15. And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman water as a flood, that he might carry her away with the flood. He signifies by the water which the serpent cast out of his mouth, the people who at his command would persecute her.
16. And the earth helped the woman, and opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. That the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the waters, sets forth the vengeance for the present troubles. Although, therefore, it may signify this woman bringing forth, it shows her afterwards flying when her offspring is brought forth, because both things did not happen at one time; for we know that Christ was born, but that the time should arrive that she should flee from the face of the serpent: (we do not know) that this has happened as yet. Then he says:—
7-9. There was a battle in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon warred, and his angels, and they prevailed not; nor was their place found any more in heaven. And that great dragon was cast forth, that old serpent: he was cast forth into the earth. This is the beginning of Antichrist; yet previously Elias must prophesy, and there must be times of peace. And afterwards, when the three years and six months are completed in the preaching of Elias, he also must be cast down from heaven, where up till that time he had had the power of ascending; and all the apostate angels, as well as Antichrist, must be roused up from hell. Paul the apostle says: Except there come a falling away first, and the man of sin shall appear, the son of perdition; and the adversary who exalted himself above all which is called God, or which is worshipped. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
From the Thirteenth chapter:
1. And I saw a beast rising up from the sea, like a leopard. This signifies the kingdom of that time of Antichrist, and the people mingled with the variety of nations.
2. His feet were as the feet of a bear. A strong and most unclean beast, the feet are to be understood as his leaders.
And his mouth as the mouth of a lion. That is, his mouth armed for blood is his bidding, and a tongue which will proceed to nothing else than to the shedding of blood.
* * * * * * * *
18. His number is the name of a man, and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. As they have it reckoned from the Greek characters, they thus find it among many to be τειταν, for τειταν has this number, which the Gentiles call Sol and Phœbus; and it is reckoned in Greek thus: τ three hundred, ε five, ι ten, τ three hundred, α one, ν fifty — which taken together become six hundred and sixty-six. For as far as belongs to the Greek letters, they fill up this number and name; which name if you wish to turn into Latin, it is understood by the antiphrase DICLUX, which letters are reckoned in this manner: since D figures five hundred, I one, C a hundred, L fifty, V five, X ten — which by the reckoning up of the letters makes similarly six hundred and sixty-six, that is, what in Greek gives τειταν, to wit, what in Latin is called DICLUX; by which name, expressed by antiphrases, we understand Antichrist, who, although he be cut off from the supernal light, and deprived thereof, yet transforms himself into an angel of light, daring to call himself light. Moreover, we find in a certain Greek codex αντεμος, which letters being reckoned up, you will find to give the number as above: α one, ν fifty, τ three hundred, ε five, μ forty, ο seventy, ς two hundred — which together makes six hundred and sixty-six, according to the Greeks. Moreover, there is another name in Gothic of him, which will be evident of itself, that is, γενσήρικος, which in the same way you will reckon in Greek letters: γ three, ε five, ν fifty, σ two hundred, η eight, ρ a hundred, ι ten, κ twenty, ο seventy, ς also two hundred, which, as has been said above, make six hundred and sixty-six.
11. And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth. He is speaking of the great and false prophet who is to do signs, and portents, and falsehoods before him in the presence of men.
And he had two horns like a lamb — that is, the appearance within of a man — and he spoke like a dragon. But the devil speaks full of malice; for he shall do these things in the presence of men, so that even the dead appear to rise again.
13. And he shall make fire come down from heaven in the sight of men. Yes (as I also have said), in the sight of men. Magicians do these things, by the aid of the apostate angels, even to this day. He shall cause also that a golden image of Antichrist shall be placed in the temple at Jerusalem, and that the apostate angel should enter, and thence utter voices and oracles. Moreover, he himself shall contrive that his servants and children should receive as a mark on their foreheads, or on their right hands, the number of his name, lest any one should buy or sell them. Daniel had previously predicted his contempt and provocation of God. And he shall place, says he, his temple within Samaria, upon the illustrious and holy mountain that is at Jerusalem, an image such as Nebuchadnezzar had made. Daniel 11:45 Thence here he places, and by and by here he renews, that of which the Lord, admonishing His churches concerning the last times and their dangers, says: But when you shall see the contempt which is spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place, let him who reads understand. Matthew 24:15; Daniel 9:27 It is called a contempt when God is provoked, because idols are worshipped instead of God, or when the dogma of heretics is introduced in the churches. But it is a turning away because steadfast men, seduced by false signs and portents, are turned away from their salvation.
From the Seventeenth Chapter:
1-6. There came one of the seven angels, which have the seven bowls, and spoke with me, saying, Come, I will show you the judgment of that great whore who sits upon many waters. And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs. The decrees of that senate are always accomplished against all, contrary to the preaching of the true faith; and now already mercy being cast aside, itself here gave the decree among all nations.
3. And I saw the woman herself sitting upon the scarlet-colored beast, full of names of blasphemy. But to sit upon the scarlet beast, the author of murders, is the image of the devil. Where also is treated of his captivity, concerning which we have fully considered. I remember, indeed, that this is called Babylon also in the Apocalypse, on account of confusion; and in Isaiah also; and Ezekiel called it Sodom. In fine, if you compare what is said against Sodom, and what Isaiah says against Babylon, and what the Apocalypse says, you will find that they are all one.
9. The seven heads are the seven hills, on which the woman sits. That is, the city of Rome.
10. And there are seven kings: five have fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he has come, he will be for a short time. The time must be understood in which the written Apocalypse was published, since then reigned Cæsar Domitian; but before him had been Titus his brother, and Vespasian, Otho, Vitellius, and Galba. These are the five who have fallen. One remains, under whom the Apocalypse was written — Domitian, to wit. The other has not yet come, speaks of Nerva; and when he has come, he will be for a short time, for he did not complete the period of two years.
11. And the beast which you saw is of the seven. Since before those kings Nero reigned.
And he is the eighth. He says only when this beast shall come, reckon it the eighth place, since in that is the completion. He added:—
And shall go into perdition. For that ten kings received royal power when he shall move from the east, he says. He shall be sent from the city of Rome with his armies. And Daniel sets forth the ten horns and the ten diadems. And that these are eradicated from the former ones — that is, that three of the principal leaders are killed by Antichrist: that the other seven give him honour and wisdom and power, of whom he says:—
16. These shall hate the whore, to wit, the city, and shall burn her flesh with fire. Now that one of the heads was, as it were, slain to death, and that the stroke of his death was directed, he speaks of Nero. For it is plain that when the cavalry sent by the senate was pursuing him, he himself cut his throat. Him therefore, when raised up, God will send as a worthy king, but worthy in such a way as the Jews merited. And since he is to have another name, He shall also appoint another name, that so the Jews may receive him as if he were the Christ. Says Daniel: He shall not know the lust of women, although before he was most impure, and he shall know no God of his fathers: for he will not be able to seduce the people of the circumcision, unless he is a judge of the law. Daniel 11:37 Finally, also, he will recall the saints, not to the worship of idols, but to undertake circumcision, and, if he is able, to seduce any; for he shall so conduct himself as to be called Christ by them. But that he rises again from hell, we have said above in the word of Isaiah: Water shall nourish him, and hell has increased him; who, however, must come with name unchanged, and doings unchanged, as says the Spirit.
[ SOURCE: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0712.htm ]
I did find it interesting that many in the Preterist camp seem to have a fair amount in common with Victorinus’ view of the book of Revelation. However, although he obviously considered the Antichrist to be a Caesar of Rome, please be careful to note that he believed Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian, which, contrary to the Preterist view, places it after the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD. We know that Domitian reigned from 81 to 96 AD, thus lending further historical evidence that John wrote Revelation in the 90 AD timeframe not the supposed 65 AD timeframe held by the Preterists. Note also that according to Eusebius (260 – 340 AD), in his writings on Church History (Book III), he said Irenaeus also placed the writing of Revelation during Domitian’s reign:
Chapter 18. The Apostle John and the Apocalypse.
1. It is said that in this persecution the apostle and evangelist John, who was still alive, was condemned to dwell on the island of Patmos in consequence of his testimony to the divine word.
2. Irenæus, in the fifth book of his work Against Heresies, where he discusses the number of the name of Antichrist which is given in the so-called Apocalypse of John, speaks as follows concerning him:
3. If it were necessary for his name to be proclaimed openly at the present time, it would have been declared by him who saw the revelation. For it was seen not long ago, but almost in our own generation, at the end of the reign of Domitian.
4. To such a degree, indeed, did the teaching of our faith flourish at that time that even those writers who were far from our religion did not hesitate to mention in their histories the persecution and the martyrdoms which took place during it.
5. And they, indeed, accurately indicated the time. For they recorded that in the fifteenth year of Domitian Flavia Domitilla, daughter of a sister of Flavius Clement, who at that time was one of the consuls of Rome, was exiled with many others to the island of Pontia in consequence of testimony borne to Christ.
Chapter 19. Domitian commands the Descendants of David to be slain.
But when this same Domitian had commanded that the descendants of David should be slain, an ancient tradition says that some of the heretics brought accusation against the descendants of Jude (said to have been a brother of the Saviour according to the flesh), on the ground that they were of the lineage of David and were related to Christ himself. Hegesippus relates these facts in the following words.
Chapter 20. The Relatives of our Saviour.
1. Of the family of the Lord there were still living the grandchildren of Jude, who is said to have been the Lord’s brother according to the flesh.
2. Information was given that they belonged to the family of David, and they were brought to the Emperor Domitian by the Evocatus. For Domitian feared the coming of Christ as Herod also had feared it. And he asked them if they were descendants of David, and they confessed that they were. Then he asked them how much property they had, or how much money they owned. And both of them answered that they had only nine thousand denarii, half of which belonged to each of them.
4. And this property did not consist of silver, but of a piece of land which contained only thirty-nine acres, and from which they raised their taxes and supported themselves by their own labor.
5. Then they showed their hands, exhibiting the hardness of their bodies and the callousness produced upon their hands by continuous toil as evidence of their own labor.
6. And when they were asked concerning Christ and his kingdom, of what sort it was and where and when it was to appear, they answered that it was not a temporal nor an earthly kingdom, but a heavenly and angelic one, which would appear at the end of the world, when he should come in glory to judge the quick and the dead, and to give unto every one according to his works.
7. Upon hearing this, Domitian did not pass judgment against them, but, despising them as of no account, he let them go, and by a decree put a stop to the persecution of the Church.
8. But when they were released they ruled the churches because they were witnesses and were also relatives of the Lord. And peace being established, they lived until the time of Trajan. These things are related by Hegesippus.
9. Tertullian also has mentioned Domitian in the following words: Domitian also, who possessed a share of Nero’s cruelty, attempted once to do the same thing that the latter did. But because he had, I suppose, some intelligence, he very soon ceased, and even recalled those whom he had banished.
10. But after Domitian had reigned fifteen years, and Nerva had succeeded to the empire, the Roman Senate, according to the writers that record the history of those days, voted that Domitian’s honors should be cancelled, and that those who had been unjustly banished should return to their homes and have their property restored to them.
11. It was at this time that the apostle John returned from his banishment in the island and took up his abode at Ephesus, according to an ancient Christian tradition.
[ SOURCE: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250103.htm ]
Here we see both the timing of John’s banishment to Patmos under Domitian’s reign as well as the cause of his release after Domitian’s death as recorded by the Christian historian Eusebius. But he certainly was not the only one to hold this view. According to both Jerome and Eusebius, Tertullian (150 – 212 AD) did too, among others:
[ SOURCE: http://www.evidenceunseen.com/bible-difficulties-2/nt-difficulties/jude/date-of-revelation/ ]
The above chart was taken from a blog that also provides quite a lot of other reasonable evidence for the later dating of Revelation, which if true, of course renders the entire Preterist view null and void as even some of their own strong adherents have noted:
“If the late-date of around A.D. 95-96 is accepted, a wholly different situation would prevail. The events in the mid to late 60s of the first century would be absolutely excluded as possible fulfillments.”[1] – Ken Gentry
“If the book was written after A.D. 70, then its contents manifestly do not refer to events surrounding the fall of Jerusalem—unless the book is a wholesale fraud, having been composed after the predicted events had already occurred… The burden for preterists then is to demonstrate that Revelation was written before A.D. 70.” [2] – R.C. Sproul
Indeed, the burden is on them to prove it wasn’t written in the reign of Domitian as clearly stated by so many writers of the first few centuries AD.
Here are some other strong arguments against the early dating of Revelation taken from the above mentioned website:
INTERNAL EVIDENCE:
Internal evidences are those which come from within the book itself. In addition to the extrabiblical arguments, there are several internal evidences for the late date of Revelation.[18]
ARGUMENT #1: John’s ministry in Ephesus would overlap with Paul and Timothy.
If the early date is true, then John would have been leading in Ephesus at the same time as Paul and Timothy. Why would Paul leave Timothy in charge of this church, if the apostle John was there? Moreover, at the end of 2 Timothy, Paul mentions 17 coworkers by name, but John isn’t mentioned! Why wouldn’t he mention John? Why wouldn’t John mention Paul or Timothy in his writing to the church of Ephesus? (Rev. 2:1-7)
ARGUMENT #2: The church of Smyrna didn’t exist in the 60’s AD.
Polycarp—writing in AD 110—states that Smyrnaeans weren’t believers during the time of Paul.[19] Thus how could John write to a church that didn’t exist yet? While Acts 19:10 says that “all who lived in Asia heard the word of the Lord,” this doesn’t mean that a substantial church existed yet. Moreover, Paul never mentions a church existing in Smyrna in any of his letters, which is a conspicuous silence.
ARGUMENT #3: Paul writes of the church in Laodicea.
We date the book of Colossians to AD 60-61. Paul mentions a thriving church in Laodicea at this time (Col. 2:2; 4:13, 16). However, if Revelation was written in AD 65, then this church must have plummeted spiritually in just a few years. In fact, they had become so bad, that Christ threatened to vomit them out of his mouth! (Rev. 3:16) Of course, spiritual decline can occur quickly (Gal. 1:6), but which is more likely? A quick decline or a slower decline?
ARGUMENT #4: Laodicea suffered a massive earthquake in AD 60.
Tacitus mentions that the Laodiceans refused all aid from the Roman Empire.[20] By the time that Revelation was written, Laodicea was completely rebuilt. This would make sense of John’s comments that they “have need of nothing” (Rev. 3:16). This fits better with the AD 95 date. In fact, Hitchcock notes, “The archaeological evidence at Laodicea points to a thirty-year rebuilding process.”[21] He cites extensive research from primary historical sources, Colin Hemer’s extensive historical research, and modern day archaeological discoveries to support this conclusion.
ARGUMENT #5: John’s banishment to Patmos.
John tells us that he was banished to Patmos (Rev. 1:9). Does this fit better with the early date or the late date? While Nero did practice banishment, he executed Peter and Paul, rather than banishing them. Nero never banishes Christians, but Domitian is said to have banished another believer: Flavia Domitilla. She was banished in AD 95 to the island of Pandeteria. She was also released by Nerva—the same as John. Craig Blomberg writes, “John’s brief exile on the island of Patmos (1:9) fits the mid-90s well, whereas there is no evidence of Christians being banished from their homelands by the government prior to this date.”[22]
Why didn’t John mention the destruction of Jerusalem?
Preterists argue that it is bizarre that John would fail to mention the destruction of Jerusalem, if he was writing in AD 95. Jesus’ prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem was an excellent apologetic for supporting the veracity of Christ’s claims. Preterists argue why John would fail to point this out in his letter. However, a number of counterarguments can be made:
First, the original audience was ethnically and geographically different than Jerusalem. When we look at the churches in Revelation 2 and 3, these are all Gentile churches—not Jewish believers. They were 800 miles from Jerusalem.
Second, the original audience was chronologically different than Jerusalem. If the late date is true, then the destruction of Jerusalem would’ve been 25 years in the past.
Third, John was commanded to write about prophecy (Rev. 1:3)—not apologetics. In Revelation 1:19, Jesus commands John: “Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.” John was a prophet who was writing about the future—not a historian or an apologist who was writing about the past. If Revelation was an apologetics text, we might expect him to mention this fulfilled prophecy. However, Revelation is a book of prophecy—not apologetics or history.
I have made some of these same arguments myself many times in the past when dealing with Preterists.
I once heard it said, “When you proceed from a false premise, your conclusions inevitably end in sheer madness.” Perhaps the biggest underlying (false) premise of those I know in the Preterist camp is that Revelation isn’t talking on a worldwide or cosmic scale – as the text seems to CLEARLY indicate. Rather, John is just using “parabolic language” to describe the horrors of the “old covenant system” being destroyed and the new era of Christianity replacing it. The idea is, the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple was an unimaginable cataclysm, akin in their minds to the stars falling from heaven and everything in the cosmos being burned up. So when Isaiah, Yeshua, Peter and John describe these cosmic events, we can’t take it literally. No. No. No. They didn’t really mean what they so clearly said about alllllllll the stars falling to Earth like figs. It’s just a parabolic figure of speech. What they are really saying is that the world as the Jews knew it was about to crumble. But I’ve tried to point out to them that the book of Revelation was not written to the Jews in the land of Israel. Rather, it was written to Israelites in the diaspora and formerly pagan Gentiles, both of which could care less about Jerusalem, and who never had anything to do with it or the Temple. So, why would any of this “parabolic language” even remotely apply to them? Why would they even care? I could see this being a somewhat reasonable argument if Revelation was aimed at the Jewish residents of Jerusalem who were about to see their entire world destroyed, but it wasn’t!
Clement of Alexandria, who taught Origen also gives us strong support for the later date for the book of Revelation. Citing Clement, Who is the Rich Man that shall be Saved, XLII, I found a good article on-line commenting on this:
Clement of Alexandria (AD150-220) recounted a story about John shortly after his return from exile, while a very old man. “And that you may be still more confident, that repenting thus truly there remains for you a sure hope of salvation, listen to a tale, which is not a tale but a narrative, handed down and committed to the custody of memory, about the Apostle John. For when, on the tyrant’s death, he returned to Ephesus from the isle of Patmos, he went away, being invited, to the contiguous territories of the nations, here to appoint bishops, there to set in order whole Churches, there to ordain such as were marked out by the Spirit.”
The expression “the tyrant’s death” can only refer to the death of either Nero or Domitian, the only two “tyrants” that ruled in the first century. Eusebius related that upon the death of Domitian, the Roman senate voted to release those exiled by Domitian. This seems to parallel Clement’s statement above. However, the above statement COULD refer to Nero, except for one fact. In the story that Clement related, he clearly stated that John was a very old and feeble man.
The story is about a young new convert whom John entrusted to a certain elder to disciple in the Faith. The man had formerly been a thief and robber. Upon John’s return from exile on Patmos, he heard that this young man had returned to his old life of crime. Upon hearing this, he sharply rebuked the elder in whose custody he had left him. John immediately set out for the place where this robber and his band were known to lurk. Upon reaching the place, he was assaulted by the band of robbers. He demanded of them to take him to their leader. They brought John to the very man whom John had formerly won to Christ, and left in the custody of the elder. When the young man saw John approaching, he began to run away. John began to run after him, calling, “Why, my son, dost thou flee from me, thy father, unarmed, old? Son, pity me. Fear not; thou hast still hope of life. I will give account to Christ for thee. If need be, I will willingly endure thy death, as the Lord did death for us. For thee I will surrender my life. Stand, believe; Christ hath sent me.” John then explained to him that forgiveness and restoration was still possible. Clement then stated, “And he, when he heard, first stood, looking down; then threw down his arms, then trembled and wept bitterly. And on the old man approaching, he embraced him, speaking for himself with lamentations as he could, and baptized a second time with tears, concealing only his right hand. The other pledging, and assuring him on oath that he would find forgiveness for himself from the Savior, beseeching and failing on his knees, and kissing his right hand itself, as now purified by repentance, led him back to the church.”
From this account we see that upon John’s release from exile on Patmos, he was a feeble old man. John could have been in his teens or twenties when Jesus called him. He and his brother James were working with their father as fishermen (Matt. 4:21-22). Assuming John was in his twenties, he would have been in his eighties in AD96. If he was in his teens when Jesus called him, he would have been in his seventies at the end of Domitian’s reign. However, if the “tyrant” referred to by Clement was Nero, then John would have still been fairly young by the time of Nero’s death, perhaps in his forties, fifties, or early sixties. He would hardly be spoken of as a feeble old man by Clement.
That John lived until after the reign of Domitian is also shown by Irenaeus’ repeated references to his own mentor, Polycarp, being John’s disciple. Polycarp was born in AD65, and died in AD155. He was five years old when Jerusalem was destroyed. He was two years old when Nero died. His being tutored by John therefore must have been at least a decade after the destruction of Jerusalem, and more likely two or three decades afterward.
More than one early writer mentioned the persecution of the Apostles under Nero. They spoke of the martyrdom of Peter and Paul, but made no mention of John’s exile during this persecution.
As is obvious to the unbiased reader, the early external evidence that Revelation was written under the reign of Domitian is indisputable. No evidence exists, from the first three centuries of Christian tradition, placing the composition of Revelation during the reign of Nero. Nor is there any evidence (Christian or secular) that Nero exiled any Christians to Patmos.
[ SOURCE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1487362/posts ]
In my opinion, there is just wayyyyyyyyy too much strong internal and external evidence in favor of a later dating (post 90 AD) of Revelation than an earlier, pre-70 AD dating. For even more evidence to support this view, please see: https://sakeofthetruth.wordpress.com/2020/08/10/when-was-the-book-of-revelation-written/
OK. Back to Victorinus. As a result of doing this research, this is actually the first time I ever heard of him. Turns out his is the oldest known commentary on the book of Revelation. With this in mind, I must say, I was rather intrigued by his view of the Beast. Unlike most “Bible scholars” today, he clearly understands that the Beast comes from the Bottomless Pit (Abyss) – which obviously should tell us that he’s not coming Kenya, the E.U., Turkey, the Vatican, a U.S. President, etc.. Victorinus can read and apparently accepted Revelation 17 at face value. So at some point in his future, he apparently envisioned Nero rising from the dead…
16. These shall hate the whore, to wit, the city, and shall burn her flesh with fire. Now that one of the heads was, as it were, slain to death, and that the stroke of his death was directed, he speaks of Nero. For it is plain that when the cavalry sent by the senate was pursuing him, he himself cut his throat. Him therefore, when raised up, God will send as a worthy king, but worthy in such a way as the Jews merited. And since he is to have another name, He shall also appoint another name, that so the Jews may receive him as if he were the Christ. Says Daniel: He shall not know the lust of women, although before he was most impure, and he shall know no God of his fathers: for he will not be able to seduce the people of the circumcision, unless he is a judge of the law. Daniel 11:37 Finally, also, he will recall the saints, not to the worship of idols, but to undertake circumcision, and, if he is able, to seduce any; for he shall so conduct himself as to be called Christ by them. But that he [Nero] rises again from hell, we have said above in the word of Isaiah: Water shall nourish him, and hell has increased him; who, however, must come with name unchanged, and doings unchanged, as says the Spirit.
As I continued to dig, I found another somewhat contemporary author who shared this same view. Writing sometime in the middle of the third century, Commodianus wrote in “Fathers of the Third Century: The Instructions of Commodianus” the following quote:
XLI.—Of the Time of Antichrist.1852 211
Isaiah said: This is the man who moveth the world and so many kings, and under whom the land shall become desert. Hear ye how the prophet foretold concerning him. I have said nothing elaborately, but negligently. Then, doubtless, the world shall be finished when he shall appear. He himself shall divide the globe into three ruling powers, when, moreover, Nero shall be raised up from hell, Elias shall first come to seal the beloved ones; at which things the region of Africa and the northern nation, the whole earth on all sides, for seven years shall tremble. But Elias shall occupy the half of the time, Nero shall occupy half. Then the whore Babylon, being reduced to ashes, its embers shall thence advance to Jerusalem; and the Latin conqueror shall then say, I am Christ, whom ye always pray to; and, indeed, the original ones who were deceived combine to praise him. He does many wonders, since his is the false prophet. Especially that they may believe him, his image shall speak. The Almighty has given it power to appear such. The Jews, recapitulating Scriptures from him, exclaim at the same time to the Highest that they have been deceived.
[ SOURCE: https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.v.ii.xlii.html ]
Both Victorinus and Commodianus obviously recognized Nero’s name adding up to 666 – which was a common understanding shared by many – so living during the horrors of Christian persecutions under Roman rule, naturally their whole context of Revelation’s prophetic Antichrist Beast was that it must be talking about the Caesars of Rome. That was their understandable mindset given the times in which they lived. But as I’ve shown in my research concerning Nimrod (see: Babylon Rising: And the First Shall Be Last pages 71-73), Nimrod ben Cush’s name also adds up to 666. But for this and a whole lot of other reasons I believe him to be a far better candidate for the End Times Antichrist than any Caesar or Pope ever was/is in my opinion. Regardless, if your idea of the Antichrist doesn’t include a resurrection and an ascension out of the Bottomless Pit like the view held by John, Victorinus, Commudianus, myself and a number of other modern scholars, you are incorrect according to Scripture. Because Revelation clearly states in no uncertain terms…
Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
I fail to see any reasonable explanation that a Preterist could give to justify this even remotely fitting any character concerning the events of 70 AD. Nero? Nope. His name may have added up to 666, but he certainly didn’t come up out of the Bottomless Pit. He was still alive during the events of 70 AD. And Titus doesn’t fit either. So you either have to toss this verse out the window or do quite the impressive mental gymnastic, tap dancing routine to try and explain it away. At least to the credit of characters like Victorinus and Commodianus, they understood both the number of the Beast and the place from which he would come (in their future, which was long after 70 AD).
Also of interest is the fact that there are only two people in Scripture referred to as “the son of perdition” – Judas and the Antichrist. In that regard, I think the ancient book called the Writings of Abraham seals the deal, identifying Nimrod point-blank as the son of perdition:
Chapter 39:
1. I answered the king saying, Why dost thou go on in wickedness to worship these dumb idols in
which there is no power even to save themselves?
2. Not only this, but thou hast led others to worship them and to enter into that order which is
most abominable in the eyes of the Most High God, for your father form whence it cometh is the
devil and it is full of lies and blasphemies and all manner of evil that men should lie and murder to
get gain.
3. Why wilt thou not serve the Most High God who created all things in heaven and on earth,
who hath created these and holdeth the power to sustain thy life or to destroy thee?
4. O foolish, ignorant, wicked king, woe shall be unto thee forever and ever for thou art the son
of Perdition for it is he who is thy father.
5. Thou hast corrupted the earth with thy sins and with the sins of thy people who follow thee.
6. It was for entering into this wicked combination to get gain that you ancestors were destroyed
in the flood when only eight souls were saved.
7. Wilt thou and thy people follow in their paths?
8. Then the wrath of the Most High God will descend upon thee to smite thee from before his
face.
9. Now put away these evil ways and turn unto the Most High God and serve Him that there may
be hope for thee.
10. But behold, I see that thine heart is hardened in iniquity that there is no repentance for thee,
for the evil one hath sealed thee his; wherefore all thy ways shall come to naught and thou and thy
people shall be destroyed from off the face of the earth.
[ SOURCE: https://rejectedscriptures.weebly.com/uploads/4/0/9/5/4095914/writing_of_abraham_one.pdf ]
Of course, we must establish the validity of this text and deal with the fact that Joseph Smith had a hand in translating it. But that’s a topic for a whole other discussion.
Circling back around to the primary point I’m trying to make here: clearly none of the men cited in this blog, writing in the the first two hundred years following the time of Yeshua and His Apostles believed the events of 70AD constituted the fulfillment of the prophetic words of Revelation. They were quite obviously Christian “Futurists” (those who believe the End Times are still in the future). And there’s plenty more that can be found in the writings of these and other so-called Early Church Fathers. And of course, we cannot forget much later writings, such as those of the Reformers who clearly thought the Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church was (and some still claim is) the Antichrist of Revelation. Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, King James, John Wyclif, William Tyndale, John Knox, Philip Melanchthon, Thomas Cranmer, Huldreich Zwingli, The Westminster Confession of Faith, The Baptist Confession of Faith, Charles Spurgeon, Nicolaus Von Amsdorf, Flacius, Roger Williams and many others strongly held to this view. Indeed, there are many today who still do. It would appear after the understanding of Caesar’s as the Antichrist proved false, the mentality of Rome being his seat remained, so the attention shifted to the Papacy. There are logical arguments for all of these opinions – even if they are (in my opinion) still false.
– Rob Skiba
- http://www.kingdomofthebride.com/Church_Fathers_View_of_the_Second_Coming.html
- https://www.logosapostolic.org/bible_study/RP355-9ChurchFathers.htm
“There is a MAJOR DECEPTION going around in the airwaves of social media pertaining to bible prophecy, where people are claiming that “the 7 Seal Prophecy of Revelation” has come to pass and is fulfilled already. They’re calling people who claim that there are still future prophecies to be fulfilled in Revelation; “Futurists”, saying that it’s a message from the Devil, which is total b.s. and they’re a bunch of monkeys and cannot hear God. This claim of theirs is a soul-murdering message, and there are so many biblical reasons why that it is totally impossible for Revelation to be fulfilled, I’ll leave a couple examples of why below:
1. The 5th seal[great tribulation/Jacob’s Trouble] hasn’t come to pass yet, because 2/3 of all American-Israelites would be dead right now, and the others would be scattered to other nations. (Eze 5:2)
2. the Church of God would have NO VOICE in the world scene AT ALL, because the Lord causes a “Word famine” just before great tribulation/Jacob’s trouble kicks off (Amos 8:11); the voice of Christ and the Church are “removed” at this point (Rev 18:23).
**there’s no way Nemos would be pulling off what he is doing right now on world platforms if this had already taken place.3. The 7th Seal of Revelation aka. “Day[year] of the Lord” has not come to pass yet because we would be “immortal” already. The 7th Seal contains “7 Trumpets in (Rev 8:7 thru 16:21)” and (1 Cor 15:52 & 1 Thess 4:16-17) shows that on the “final trump[7th trumpet]” we’re all changed to immortality. But we’re all still in the flesh, so that’s also an impossibility.
4. The 7th Trumpet of the 7th Seal contains the “7 last plagues of the Lord” and the 6th plague is when the gathering of the nations at Armageddon takes place to go fight the Lord in the Valley of Jehoshaphat/Decision (Rev 16:12-14; Joel 3:11-12). So if the 7 Seals were in fact opened and come to pass already, the Lord would already be sitting on David’s Throne ruling the world with us right beside him.”
Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
~Matthew 16:28
Many different explanations have been suggested about what Jesus meant by this prediction. Most scholars and commentators agree He was referring to the “transfiguration,” literally the very next event mentioned by Matthew. Jesus will be transfigured from His fully human form into His glorious kingdom appearance as the Son of God. His face will shine like the sun, and His clothes will become white as light (Matthew 17:1–2). Peter, James, and John will be eyewitnesses to this event.
—————————————–
Some, it is true, see this tribulation as an event already past. Not only do Postmillennialists take this position; even some Amillennialists see what Jesus speaks about in Matthew 24:15-28 as past.
However, a careful study of Matthew 24 exposes their error.
- Verses 21, 29 and 30 are very clear: “for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be … But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened … and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven.”
- The tribulation of vv. 15ff follows the preaching of the gospel to the whole world (v. 14).
20. The Book of Matthew (Christ’s Warnings About The End)
Which are complete? See the infographic below – Blue was completed AFTER Christ’s time
Red are still unfulfilled largely though it has begun with verses like 5 and 7. (debunking the preterist position thoroughly)
See actual text verses for hyperlinks to fulfillments.
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Nemos Notes: Fulfilled 99%)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. (Nemos Notes: Search this verse on this page for another section going in depth on The Mummy)
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
In case you missed it:
Primordial Truth: Mapping the Rabbit Holes – Know Everything!
The Hidden His-Story of Man, Myth & The Mystery Babylon Religion of The Deep State
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